NFS Shift user reviews

2009 Need for Speed SHIFT
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Zotic+
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Re: NFS Shift user reviews

Post by Zotic+ »

Hydro_PT wrote:
Zotic+ wrote: -Customization is like real life
Not. :P
not like real parts but pretty realistic in the racing world
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Re: NFS Shift user reviews

Post by Summ »

Hydro_PT wrote:It doesn't make much sense because pilots are always looking for other cars. And they use the mirrors too. It's something I don't like in SHIFT. Everyone praises the cockpit detail and stuff, but funny enough you have working mirrors but you can't look at them. Inside the cockpit there's not virtual rear-view mirror like there's in the exterior views, so you must use the true mirror to see what's behind. Problem is, the true mirror can't be seen on its totality, and it's pretty much useless.

If you ever played DiRT, there's something Codemasters did really well. When you press the key to look behind, the camera focus on the mirror and you have that head movement like in real life. You can still see the track, but it isn't so focused on the track in front of you, the camera is more focused on the mirror so you can see what's behind. When you leave the button, the camera moves back to its place. It's really cool and realistic. And I think that when you try to look to the right or left side, the camera points to the corresponding mirror. It's very realistic.

In SHIFT you don't have that, which sucks IMO. I want to see where the cars are when overtaking so I can enter back in the racing line without having the front bumper of other car touching my rear (and making me crash). You should be able to move the camera around to see these things... dunno why you need to use the keyboard and not the mouse, which would be easier to use if you play with a wheel. Still, the way they did in DiRT seems much better for me. Weirdly you don't have that feature in GRID either, but at least you can look to the right or to the left. :S
You are aware of the fact that there is a 'look back' function in the options menu, which you can assign to any button on your wheel that you like, right?
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Re: NFS Shift user reviews

Post by Hydro_PT »

I know that Summ lol. But when I use that button to look back, the camera focus entirely on what's behind you. Ever noticed that? Like most racing videogames, the looking back thing is just a camera pointed in the contrary direction, like it's on top of the trunk or similar. That's so unrealistic, and while you use that camera you cannot see the track.

Like I said, DiRT is much more realistic in this case, since you actually use the mirrors like in a real car to see what's behind. SHIFT has amazing cockpits and working mirrors, but if fails on this case. Not to mention you can't look around properly.
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Re: NFS Shift user reviews

Post by Summ »

^The omission of the ability to map keys to look around is a big oversight, I quite agree. That being said, I haven't tried Dirt, but you say your view shifts to the mirrors as well as zooms into them, right? If you really want to split hairs on this one, as you seem to do, how realistic do you find the zooming part?

There is plenty of material to pick this game apart as is. Nitpicking on trivia like looking back not being the actual motion of looking in a mirror really isn't high on the list. In all honesty, I never used the look-back function. I have my mirrors on and they are enough for my needs. Sure, what you describe is an ulterior nice-to-have, but nothing more than that. Definitely not material for serious criticism.
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Re: NFS Shift user reviews

Post by Hydro_PT »

It doesn't zoom into the mirrors. It just focus more on the mirror. It is realistic, it's like what you do on a real car, to look at one of the mirrors you focus your eyes on the mirror but you can still see the road.

Btw I think you misunderstood what I meant. I'm just saying that everyone praises SHIFT's cockpits are being one of the best around. That's true, I agree. However, why the lack of movement inside the cockpit? Why having working mirrors that you can't use? That's what I'm criticizing. And it isn't just a "nice-to-have feature". I think it's important to at least be able to look to your side. I don't really care if the camera points to the mirrors or not, that's not the point. The point is, I want to see what's around my car. I already crashed more than once because there was an opponent right on my side but I couldn't see it, so I approached too much and you guess what happens next. You get the point now? It's something important, specially when you're overtaking or you try to cut a corner. Sometimes I follow a too wide line through a corner and when I'm getting back into the racing line, there's a car there and I can't see it because I can't look to right/left side. There's simple no ability to do so. Why not? Such detailed cockpit and those basic things aren't present?
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Re: NFS Shift user reviews

Post by GT3x24x7 »

Hydro_PT wrote:.. I can't see it because I can't look to right/left side. There's simple no ability to do so. Why not? Such detailed cockpit and those basic things aren't present?
They are present in fact, it's just an issue with your particular control setup. On a pad for example the default setup is to steer with the left stick and free look with the right. This allows you to look in any direction at anytime, even while trail braking a hairpin.

You're not wrong, but you're generalising. The game does offer free look and you can have it if you change your controls.
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Re: NFS Shift user reviews

Post by Summ »

Hydro_PT wrote:It doesn't zoom into the mirrors. It just focus more on the mirror. It is realistic, it's like what you do on a real car, to look at one of the mirrors you focus your eyes on the mirror but you can still see the road.

Btw I think you misunderstood what I meant. I'm just saying that everyone praises SHIFT's cockpits are being one of the best around. That's true, I agree. However, why the lack of movement inside the cockpit? Why having working mirrors that you can't use?
You can - I'm living proof of that. The only difference is that instead of having to press a button to center your view, you need to actually turn your eyes and look up or left.. into the mirror.. like you would in a real car. I don't understand the issue here. You don't turn your entire head, when looking at the mirrors.. you just look around with your eyes.
Hydro_PT wrote:...I can't look to right/left side. There's simple no ability to do so. Why not? Such detailed cockpit and those basic things aren't present?
Summ wrote:^The omission of the ability to map keys to look around is a big oversight, I quite agree.
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Re: NFS Shift user reviews

Post by Hydro_PT »

@GT3x24x7: Well I play with a wheel and there's no such thing in the controls. I can use the default profile for my wheel (EA did the work for me there) but even if I want to modify something, there isn't a "look left/look right" or "free look" function, and the mouse doesn't work in the cockpit. The keyboard does, but it's not good enough, I tried to use it and I can't. I didn't know about the pad because I don't use one. Still, there should be a function like this for everyone who uses a wheel.

@Summ: How can you use the mirrors? In almost all cars there's only half of the mirror that you can see, sometimes even less. How is that useful? Of course you don't turn your head, you move your eyes. But my cockpit camera in SHIFT doesn't move at all. I might post a picture of this, since I think you're not getting the idea. There are some cars (like the McLaren F1) where the interior rearview mirror works perfectly, you can see it without any problem, and it's very useful. But on most cars, you can only see half or even less of the interior mirror (you can't even see the two outside mirrors).

As an example, yesterday I was racing in Dakota Tri-Oval. I usually follow a different race line on the corners: I drive "inside" the corner and the AI drives "outside". When I get back into the racing line, I can't see if there's an AI car on my side or not. What happened yesterday? I was getting back into the race line for the final lap, but since I didn't have mirrors, I couldn't see the opponent that was right behind me. He touched my rear really hard and I lost control of the car, losing the race. If I had working mirrors, this wouldn't have happened, I would've seen the car and wait some time before returning to the race line.

This is all I mean. Just give me a "look right/left" function to assign to my wheel and it's all good. I don't mind not being able to look around freely, because it would be hard to assign that on a wheel (pads and mouses are good for this). Still, if I can look back, why not look left and right? It's useful...

"^The omission of the ability to map keys to look around is a big oversight, I quite agree."

Hehe I think I haven't read this part of your post before. My bad. :mrgreen:
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Re: NFS Shift user reviews

Post by Summ »

^In most other serious games, I usually get the ability to map view-left and view-right to my two on-wheel buttons. As previously mentioned, the fact that Shift doesn't give you the ability to (re)map these functions to keys of your choosing is indeed stupid.

Btw, I understand perfectly well the scenario you describe, make no mistake. Yet it's not one that concerns me overly. Why? Because negotiating a turn in my car requires my full attention as is. Ai or not, if I looked left or right while battling with wheel and throttle, I would get confused, lose my sense of direction and probably veer off-track. If the AI is in front of me, I will take care not to bump into it, but if the AI is not in sight - ergo behind me or coasting somewhere out of sight on my sides - I generally tend to ignore it and simply negotiate the turn the best I can, expecting and compensating for the inevitable bump that will come from a collision no matter how I drive. If the AI is that close to you, there's no bloody thing that will avoid you that collision. I throw this one on the AI and the physics. Driving the cars at their edge in this game, they skid all over the place (my E92 does, at least). Every turn it drifts sideways some. In GTR Evo you either slow down enough to take the turn with minimal sideways drift or you're dead, which means your control in the turns is 1000 times better than it is in Shift. Given the premises - and the no damage on impact - I honestly don't care much for hitting the AI in turns and have learned to deal with it in terms of simply staying on the track. Of course, this might look different with all aids turned on. I wouldn't know.

How can I use the mirrors? Well.. I have spent 40% of my time in a 135i and 49% more in the E92. 1% in assorted cars for manufacturer/car battles. Both rearview and side mirrors are quite useable in the BMW's. The day I would find it too hard to use the rearview mirrors, I would just press the 'look back button' whenever I needed to tell what was happening behind me. So.. not really an issue that bothers me =).
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Re: NFS Shift user reviews

Post by Hydro_PT »

This doesn't happens always of course, and there are times that even with the mirrors, you can't see (dead angles). But still, I hate to ram or be rammed in a race. I always try to drive perfectly, and it sucks when the AI hits you because a) they're dumb and b) you have no mirrors to see them.

I don't lose the control often when they hit me, but as I said, I already lost some races because they were right on my rear when I was gently returning to the race line. Btw I see what you mean with "if I looked left or right while battling with wheel and throttle, I would get confused, lose my sense of direction and probably veer off-track." But fun enough, I can take a quick pick to the right/left side without veering off track or losing control on the corner.

And yes, all cars skid like hell. At first I thought it was my problem, because the AI drives perfectly, no skidding at all. But after trying lots of cars and assists, I see that it isn't my fault, it's just the way the game was designed. I love to corner "on the limit", but in SHIFT its' hard to do that, since the cars don't have much grip like in other games. GTR 2 for example, if you go all hero trying to drift on the corner, you have 99% chances of losing the control of the car. You must brake and go as fast as you can but without drift. And I love when I manage to corner perfectly, that is, going at the full speed possible, following a nice racing line and no drift. It's a pleasure, I feel like a pro driver lol. :mrgreen:

When you try more cars you will see how useless the mirrors are. I didn't drive too much with the 135i or the E92, I prefer the E46, LP640 and Zonda R. Still I tried almost all cars in the game. :P
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Re: NFS Shift user reviews

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Hydro_PT wrote:And yes, all cars skid like hell. At first I thought it was my problem, because the AI drives perfectly, no skidding at all. But after trying lots of cars and assists, I see that it isn't my fault, it's just the way the game was designed. I love to corner "on the limit", but in SHIFT its' hard to do that, since the cars don't have much grip like in other games.
I know that double posting is against the rules, but I really need to quote myself after what happened. :P

I just installed a few mods in SHIFT, see if I could make the game better. The first one lets me use all reward cars in career. Since I won the cars fairly, I want to use them in my career races and also change their visual if possible, and tune them. It's a minor mod. :)

The second mod is the real one, though. It makes SHIFT the game it should have been IMO. It's called "Real Mod 2.0b" and let's see what it does (just a few things):

1st - To start with, the AI is less aggressive and they drive much better, so now they're a true challenge. Set the difficulty to hard and have fun!

2nd - The damage system was improved, now you can even lose a wheel, pop a tire or similar if you crash hard. The damage also affects your car more (in terms of performance), so clean races are the objective now.

3rd - This is the most amazing thing with this mod IMO. GRIP! Now all cars have the grip they are supposed to have! If you ever watched the AI driving, you know what I mean. They don't skid all over the place like all cars in SHIFT do (apart from the M3 GT2). Now it's a pleasure to race in SHIFT, the cars have much more grip, you can go faster on the corners and corner better, without looking unrealistic. I simple love the new way of driving, it's soooo much better! SHIFT should have this kind of handling since the beginning. I can only hope that SMS and EA adopt this in new patches, everyone should be able to play the game this way (console gamers too).

I don't have much to complain about SHIFT now. A challenging AI and a much better driving experience. Too bad it wasn't EA/SMS that did all this job. Incredible how one single person fixes this kind of stuff and makes a gamer much better.

If you play the PC version, this mod is for you. It's easy to install (no need to unpack SHIFT's files).
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Re: NFS Shift user reviews

Post by Summ »

^I've known about the RealMod for some time now, but I have always found that one guy's definition of realism is another guy's 'arcade'. I usually trust the developers - who know how their game fits together - to get the job right. In my experience, modders often improve on some aspects, but break others, because they don't know exactly how each and every bit ties into the rest and affects the rest of the gameplay. TechAde from racesimcentral also tweaked the ffb settings considerably and has received a lot of praise for those settings being much more realistic. Yet in the process he killed ffb for going over curbs/alligator teeth. In other words, no matter how much they improve something, you can always expect a downside somewhere. It might not be apparent at first, but sooner or later you will discover it.

As for the RealMod, if I recall, the original settings for grip were: 120 for players and 90 for the AI. The guy lowered player grip to 100 and upped AI grip to 100 as well. That's why the AI drives more cleanly and has become more challenging. Yet we are talking about a decrease of grip for players and not an increase. Whether it's more realistic or not, I don't really know. Haven't tried it.
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Re: NFS Shift user reviews

Post by Hydro_PT »

I haven't find the downside of this mod yet... :)

I've been modding most of my games, and it's true that when we don't have the producers support (SDK), it's hard to mod well, because you might modify something that will firetruck up the rest of the game somewhere. But on the other hand, moders often improve games, and with SHIFT, I'm seeing that right now. Some people is even improving the decals quality or making whole new paintjobs for the cars. For example, I have access to all vinyls used in SHIFT, and I can improve their quality if I want. It's just a matter of time until we have a better vinyl system and other goodies. :D

"As for the RealMod, if I recall, the original settings for grip were: 120 for players and 90 for the AI. The guy lowered player grip to 100 and upped AI grip to 100 as well."

I don't understand then. All cars have much more grip and they're a lot of fun to drive. It's not more arcade because of that, you still need to control the car well, but at least it doesn't skid all over the place. What's weird is that the BMW M3 GT2 doesn't skid all over the place even without this mod. It's the only car in career that drives like a true race car... now with this mod, all others handle like the GT2.

As for being arcade or sim, I find it more sim now. That skidding all over the place wasn't what I call "realistic". Still, the game is arcade, but it always was IMO. In the beginning it might not look an arcade game, but later on you find out that it is. So there's not much we can do... the game is arcade, but now at least it's a fun arcade and more challenging. :)

BTW you can easily test this mod. Just backup three files and replace them. The savegame isn't affected and if you don't like, just remove those files and paste the backups.

PS: This mod also adds new cameras, but they aren't good to drive, since they're placed on the roof, top of the hood and in the middle of the cockpit. But you still have the other cameras available.
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Re: NFS Shift user reviews

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Summ wrote:I've known about the RealMod for some time now, but I have always found that one guy's definition of realism is another guy's 'arcade'. I usually trust the developers - who know how their game fits together - to get the job right. In my experience, modders often improve on some aspects, but break others, because they don't know exactly how each and every bit ties into the rest and affects the rest of the gameplay.
There is some truth in there, however most racing game developers have shown a total lack of basic car physics knowledge when creating racing games. Shift is no exception to this and the physics are crap in it. The Realmod 2.0b actually fixes the handling enough that I have finally been able to play a bit more with the keyboard (the previous setting was just tedium ad nauseum). Oh and the lowering of grip for the player isn't correct. It's more a case of decreased slip angle so instead of turning the wheel slightly and the cars starting to squeal tires and create smoke you can go a full 1/6th of a wheel turn without that now! Turning is much more sensible as well as the AI handling. Realism maybe a subjective thing, but blind faith in coders who don't race is more illogical than modders tweaking to who have knowledge enough to realise that the dev's screwed up.

For me it's like firing up GT4 and getting a 1989 Mazda RX-7. You use it ingame and it feels absolutely nothing like it does in real life. You lose grip faster and accelerate slower. You have to brake earlier and you can't get on the gas until later. So you mod the car a bit and tweak a few things in the settings to get it closer to how your car sitting in your shed actually feels. Before you know it you have a full blown race prepped car ingame which is now close to how your mildly modded road car feels. Even weirder is that the car ingame seems to get impossible lap times compared to real life, so reality really is subject to different laws than coders and computer games.
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Re: NFS Shift user reviews

Post by Summ »

Kaerar wrote:Realism maybe a subjective thing, but blind faith in coders who don't race is more illogical than modders tweaking to who have knowledge enough to realise that the dev's screwed up.
I knew somebody would pick on that line eventually. What it meant to say was the following: I expect the developers to know their product better than the modders. I don't mean to say that the developers will make the most lifelike, realistic product, but rather that I trust an update/upgrade/patch/dlc done by them to be more cohesive and thoroughly correct in regards to the ulterior game than one made by modders. Does that make sense?

If you want to mincemeat it some more, the developers created the game from scratch. They conjured and implemented variables they alone know exactly the purpose of. Modders might be able to guess some of them, but they will never know exactly what those variables do in the grand scheme of things.. or how tweaking and tuning them will add to some aspects of the game, while breaking others. It's truly a case of try, watch and see.. hope it doesn't blow up in your face. It's blind tuning, really.. nothing but an educated guess. That's why I prefer to play a game mint.
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Re: NFS Shift user reviews

Post by ElvenAvenger »

you can't really get a racing game to be "REAL" fully, you'd have to include like 90% of cars because anyone can just go and say ": i've been to a race track with car X but its not in the game omg not realistic. you'd also need REAL parts in the that are in the world, what i mean is not just stuff like Toyo tires or HKS stuff or whatever else, but also other "more common" things like Michelin or sth like that. and also every driver drives his car different way, so you can recreate the car in game the way it behaves driven by you, but then someone else will say that its "unrealistic" for him.
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Re: NFS Shift user reviews

Post by Overreactman »

I very much enjoyed SHIFT, found it to be exciting and gripping as a racing game. Something I have not had since Grid. However, I have had to remove it from the computer as the number of bugs have just made the current version unplayable on my computer (with the only patch boosting the mouse functions in the menus). Either I will grab a PS3 version somewhere down the line or just not play SHIFT. I am leaning toward the former though cause it is a blast of a game.
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Re: NFS Shift user reviews

Post by jeffareid »

I've played a lot of racing games, both arcade and sim oriented. A list of videos from various games here:

http://jeffareid.net/rgv.htm

The developer of Shift don't claim it's a sim-oriented type racing game. Most players will spend 2 months to get good at driving a classis sim-oriented racing game without assists, which is why those games have assists as options. It's also why GTR Evolution (Race 07) is easier to drive than the former GTR2. If you want difficult, try Grand Prix Legends (do a web search for the freeware GPL 2004 demo). Shift is targeted at the mainstream of racing game players, the control inputs are there, but they aren't very senstitive.

The so called "drifting" in Shift is really just exaggerated oversteer. It gives a sense of what is going on with the rear end of a car, something lacking in most games. It's not realistic, but neither is exaggerating tire scrub and skid sounds which is common for even hard core sims. Personally I like it. It gives Shift a visual feel of it's own. (Unless you've played Ford Racing 2 which also exaggerated visuals - http://rcgldr.net/fr2/fr2stk.wmv).

Apparently the keyboard control filtering isn't that good. I'm not sure how games do this. I would recommed a wheel and pedals, or at least an analog controller. I use two joysticks (left => throttle+brake, right => steer), but I wouldn't recommend this setup to others.

The graphiscs are good, but with a full field of AI in front of you, the frame rates can get very slow. The main fix for this is to set car detail to low.

The AI are annoying. The back marker AI behaviors are programmed to interfere with the player, and often make mistakes, like braking early. Eventually you get past those AI, and the front runner AI's will behave more predictably. If it's a longer race, when you lap the AI cars, it's a totally different behavior, with the AI moving out of the way.

Bouncing bug - some of the cars have a bounce issue. I read this is really bad on some of the consoles. You can avoid the problem cars for the most part, depending on what you buy, but there are some invitational events, such as the last one, with the very bouncy McLaren F1. This is a bug that is supposed to be fixed in the next patch.

Other bugs - The Lambo Murc is degraded if you tune it. The only fix is to sell it, buy another and not tune it. Some muscle cars won't move if the last tuning method was advanced tuning, regardless of which car was tuned. Quick tuning any car is a workaround, along with restarting the next race to get the tuning to change. The bugs are also to be fixed in the next patch.

The career mode unlocks all the cars fairly soon, but if you're going for all badges, it can take quite a while, for example, 100 miles in 9 different cars for 3 of the "epic" badges. I may do career mode again, but I'll be waiting for the patch before I do.
Last edited by jeffareid on 17 Oct 2009, 01:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NFS Shift user reviews

Post by GT3x24x7 »

Great review Jeff. From now on when anyone asks me what the new NFS is like, I'll just link them here. You covered the lot.
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Re: NFS Shift user reviews

Post by ElvenAvenger »

nice review, just about the AI's, they probably are made like that so you think that the "few first ones" are really way better than all other AI's...i believe they intended it to look more like you are fighting few ai's hard and the rest is a bit behind... but they overdone :)
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Re: NFS Shift user reviews

Post by AERO_HDT »

Kaerar wrote:For me it's like firing up GT4 and getting a 1989 Mazda RX-7.
No such thing...

:wink:
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Re: NFS Shift user reviews

Post by Kaerar »

AERO_HDT wrote:
Kaerar wrote:For me it's like firing up GT4 and getting a 1989 Mazda RX-7.
No such thing...
:wink:
Ok try the Mazda RX-7 GT-X ('90) or the RX-7 Efini ('90). I was out by one year but the actual car didn't change in that single year. Hell I have a 1987 RX-7 in my shed which is a Series 4 with Series 5 rear lights.
Summ wrote:If you want to mincemeat it some more, the developers created the game from scratch. They conjured and implemented variables they alone know exactly the purpose of. Modders might be able to guess some of them, but they will never know exactly what those variables do in the grand scheme of things.. or how tweaking and tuning them will add to some aspects of the game, while breaking others. It's truly a case of try, watch and see.. hope it doesn't blow up in your face. It's blind tuning, really.. nothing but an educated guess. That's why I prefer to play a game mint.
That's the same as saying that people who mod cars ruin them because they aren't the original makers. Well for some people original is best, for others personalisation is the best, and all who modify know that in the beginning they are at a disadvantage, but they may well in the end know more about how to alter the settings than the original designers. Same goes for game modding. Just look at Half-Life vs CS. The mod became more popular than the game, to the point the makers even used it as a calling card to attract new players. DotA, modded cars in the earlier NFS games, etc...

If there wasn't people who modded then it would make things so boring. Lets all go and get the cookie cutter template products from the makers and never add our own personality to it hey? No offence sum by firetruck that for a bunch of lemons.
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Re: NFS Shift user reviews

Post by Summ »

^None taken. You have your opinion, I have mine. All I know is, the past is LITTERED with racing games that have been taken up with modders, who have delivered cars X and Y, where X was a superduper beautiful car everyone wanted at the moment, which was able to drive a million miles an hour, had absolutely no damage and was in every single possible way broken. Y was closer to what the game offered otherwise, but still 3rd party produced, and not quite the same thing. Personality is one thing - I'm all for custom liveries, adding more garage slots.. all kinds of things that ADD personality but don't influence GAMEPLAY. I have just seen too many examples of things getting well and truly screwed over by mods to actually trust a mod again. I know some games thrive on mods - take rFactor, for instance - but one need just look back at the early NFS days (if I remember correctly) and Midtown Madness to see how bad things can go, when 3rd parties begin to introduce their version of 'fun' into the game. Sure, you can try and avoid the stuff that's 'broken', but it's not always easy to tell shiznit from gold, when everything is sold as the ultimate this or that. I hope you catch my drift.
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AERO_HDT
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Re: NFS Shift user reviews

Post by AERO_HDT »

I think that perhaps the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I have GTR Evo and the mods are pretty decent, but I question the accuracy of them simply because they're dev'd by one or two guys who simply don't have access to the resources (i.e. the real car to model from) to be as accurate as the hilted original programmers were.

Could you imagine modding GT5?

It would turn into the most laughable experience ever.

Modding is good to some degree, but when you're looking at a game where the entire premise is based on accuracy and real life modelling, you have to wonder. I'm a bit of a DoTA player, I probably wouldn't play W3 otherwise, I think the DoTA mod has literally MADE Warcraft 3.

But that's only one mod out of a million, and like Summ says, a lot of tinkerers tend to play around with the internals of a game and improve it on one scale, but break something at the other. This more often than not is the truth, so every time you download and install a mod, you're essentially rolling the dice and hoping that it lands the way you want it to.

Mods eventually plough into the realms of unrealism when it comes to racing sims, because people start tinkering with cars that they'll never see in their lifetimes let alone drive. How long before someone comes out with a carbon-bodied Veyron "mod"?

But perhaps this is getting a bit off-topic and might deserve a thread of its own....
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Kaerar
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Re: NFS Shift user reviews

Post by Kaerar »

LOL AERO_HDT there is already a Carbon body Veyron "mod" in the real world! Problem is that it's already carbon, they just allowed the weave to show and didn't paint it ;)

GT4 had limited car setup (well less limited than SHIFT) and you could easily ruin a car using it. It's exactly like the cars for NFS 3 HP where you had the unstoppable Ferrari Bolide which once you learn't how to control (didn't drive like the other cars ingame) you could do lap times that were insane, yet it wasn't broken. There were the stupid 2 million MPH cars, but just avoid them!!

I guess after the many years I have been messing with mods and other stuff I have a good shiznit filter ;)
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