Need for Speed SHIFT: Willow Springs

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Bojan
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Need for Speed SHIFT: Willow Springs

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Re: Need for Speed SHIFT: Willow Springs

Post by Tviper7 »

http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/69890 ... rview.html

Another New Video with New multiplayer info
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Re: Need for Speed SHIFT: Willow Springs

Post by Hydro_PT »

Videos, videos and more videos.

What about the demo? -.-'

We are just 8 days away from the release date... I damn hope there's a demo, or I will download this game to try it out before I buy it. :twisted:
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Re: Need for Speed SHIFT: Willow Springs

Post by TheNoobofFerraris »

Eight days? What are you talking about? :|

Oh and here's a follow-up to Tviper7's reply. It's a good 15 minute SHIFT Developer Walkthrough that some people may be interested in which was also provided by G4.

http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/69890 ... l#comments
Seems like this website is a ghost town. No longer worth a visit or anyone's time.
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Re: Need for Speed SHIFT: Willow Springs

Post by XCROSSX »

Tviper7 wrote:http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/69890 ... rview.html

Another New Video with New multiplayer info
Is it just me or I heard something like "rise against" in this video?
GT3x24x7 wrote:I don't get why the word 'irony' has nothing to do with metallurgy.
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Re: Need for Speed SHIFT: Willow Springs

Post by Hydro_PT »

TheNoobofFerraris wrote:Eight days? What are you talking about? :|
Lol never mind, I got the date wrong. I thought the game was going to be released on September 11th, but it's on 15th. My bad... still only 13 days left... a demo should be out already, I'm kinda bored of all those videos.
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Re: Need for Speed SHIFT: Willow Springs

Post by Summ »

^Play through pro street again.. get the feeling back, so you will be ready for when the game actually hits the shores. I doubt the demo will be out before release.
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Re: Need for Speed SHIFT: Willow Springs

Post by Hydro_PT »

ProStreet again? No thanks, that handling sucks, even with my racing wheel. I've beat the game twice and it was enough for me... if I install ProStreet again, it's just to tune some cars and maybe one or two races in the desert or in the oval track. :)

I hope they release the demo before the game is released... otherwise I'll have to illegally get it... and then EA will complain that piracy this and that. I won't buy this game without trying it out first, that's for sure. However, if the demo comes out before the release and I like it enough, I'll pre-order it from GAME with pleasure. :D
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Re: Need for Speed SHIFT: Willow Springs

Post by Summ »

^Pro Street's driving physics were far better than in any other NFS game before it. Sure, it wasn't perfect and it wasn't exactly a sim, but it was, to me at least, by far the most enjoyable NFS to date.

As far as piracy goes, isn't it illegal to discuss on this site? It sure as hell used to be..

Personally, I'm buying this game the day it comes out, demo or no demo. It's been built by some of the same people, who brought us GTR and GTR2 and it is based on Pro Street. I have no doubt it will be enjoyable, even more so than Pro Street. If it will be as simmy as the GTR series and the likes remains to be determined, but I have no doubt I will spend a good deal of hours in this game. No reason for me not to buy it.
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Re: Need for Speed SHIFT: Willow Springs

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I don't agree with you. ProStreet's physics are nice for crashes (specially the tracks with jumps, I had crazy accidents there), but the car's handling and "feel" was not good. GRID, GTR2 or even ToCA are way better, and even though GTR2 is a sim, GRID and ToCA are a mix of simulation and arcade (they tend more to be arcade).

You don't notice this while racing in those tracks that have wide corners and straights that make you go fast all the time, but if you race on a track with hard corners or chicanes that make you drive slowly, the car's handling sucks. When I started playing, I was "amazed" how my 240SX moved like a brick with wheels. Even with the racing wheel, the feeling of driving on most of the tracks isn't good. I don't know if I'm explaining myself well (English is not my native language :P ), but this is what I felt, and most of my friends (who played the game with the keyboard), said that sometimes they would just quit from the race, because it was so unrealistic and boring.

Another thing is that the physics were a bit too buggy. Sometimes a little bump on the road would cause a massive loss of control and a totalled car (even at a low speed).

Of all the NFS I've played so far, Porsche Unleashed is the one with the best physics. Of course that ProStreet is better in some things, but PU is an old game, from 2000, and PS is from 2007. However, I still enjoy driving my Porsches with that kind of handling, it feels realistic and good. Not to talk about the cockpit and its functions. :P

This is my opinion, of course. I hope SHIFT is better than ProStreet on the driving physics, which I think it will be. I know Slightly Mad Studios' work and I've seen a lot of videos of the game, and it looks better. In fact I think it looks even better than GRID, so let's hope it also feels better than GRID (which was a bit too arcade for me).

I'm not talking about piracy lol. I'm just saying that we should get a demo before the release, otherwise how are we going to test the game? I don't trust EA no more when it comes to NFS. They've been letting me down for years, how do I know that this time, the game is going to be worth the money? I don't want to spend 30/35€ on something that I won't like or that won't be good. If they don't release a demo, I'll have to download the entire game, test it, and then decide whether I buy it or not.

I know this is piracy, and it's not an excuse, but I only like to buy games that are worth my money. When I don't know if a game is good enough, I try the demo. If there's no demo, I have to try the game in a err.. different way.

PS: Wow big post. :mrgreen:
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Re: Need for Speed SHIFT: Willow Springs

Post by Summ »

^Ok, taking it from the bottom up. =). You're getting a big one in return ;)

Piracy and demo. I don't think the demo is coming before release. Here is why. I believe that Shift is a massive risk for EA and the NFS franchise as a whole. I believe EA feels the same way. How do you ensure big revenue despite the risk? You put together a business model that ensures huge cashflow in the beginning stages. That's exactly what EA has done in this case. They have built a HUGE hype around this game and given people the option to pre-purchase. I'm sure a lot of their customers have already done this and most of the rest will get it at release date - most of their cash will come in during the first week.

Beautiful. They made a risky product, but handled it so well that even if it proves to be a flop, perhaps up to 70% of their revenues will be secured before people find out that it is a flop. (the 70% part is unfounded and just pure speculation on my part.. to give an example of my line of thought)

Now, what could threaten this business model?
Well, what do you think? A demo, perhaps? =)
I think EA knows full well that this game could go both ways, and they are afraid of it. Until release, I doubt anyone will get anything else than their word for how the game really is. After release, after the big cash has gone in, they will probably release the demo, so the rest can try it out, when it no longer is a threat to their income. Makes sense, no?

Putting this in relation to you and your situation, this means that a demo will most likely be released either at the release date or shortly thereafter. You will probably not find the full game on the internet before the demo.. and it does take time to download a full game, especially in the early stages of its distribution. In other words, given a choice, you will probably get the demo before you can get the full game without purchase.. so, time-wise, there should be no benefit for you to go the pirate way. Only a lot of pain if you get discovered ;) .. which, now that you've stated it on the internet (brilliant idea, btw) is more likely than ever.

As for Pro Street, GTR2, Porshe Unleashed, GRID and TOCA - I know the first two quite well and agree that there's a mile and a half between them. Porsche Unleashed.. never tried it. Neither have I tried TOCA. As for GRID, as previously mentioned it had trouble with my G25, so I was reduced to trying it with a keyboard, where it sucked so hard that I uninstalled before completing the first race. The steering via keyboard was progressive, as in the longer you held down the key, the more it turned the wheels (great idea in theory, horrible in practice). There were curves in which the car just didn't turn fast enough despite me keeping the key mashed down and it simply ploughed into the green/dirt. As soon as it touched one wheel to a different surface than tarmac, the car spun out of control. In other words, they provided a driving model, which punished mistakes hard, but implemented a control scheme, which made it impossible to drive flawlessly.. and they killed the best wheel on the market. BIG thumbs up! Other than that, I don't know the game that well. I just know the first impression I got and the videos I've seen of it, and tbh it looked like an arcade racer worse than Carbon. I might be wrong. Sadly I never got the occasion to try it out with a wheel, as it probably should be played.

As for Pro Street's handling - PS was, imo, always meant to be played with a wheel. I have tried playing it with keyboard and it was horrible. Not as horrible as GRID, but still horrible. Realism cannot be judged with anything less than a steering wheel. As such I will discard your comment about your friends finding it unrealistic.

You say that the cars in PS felt like they were bricks on wheels. I take it that you felt they were heavy and non-responsive. Personally I found that it depends on the car and on the stage the car is. I found cars such as the RX-7 and RX-8 quite nimble and agile. It wasn't their responsiveness I had a bone to pick with, but rather their control. Even with everything turned off and no assists, it felt like there was traction control and abs on all the time. I don't think I have ever spun a single car in PS despite rather reckless driving, nor have I ever had a slip I could not catch (not talking about drift mode here, but rather circuit racing). In other words, the car physics were far too forgiving. You could give the cars hell and they would take it in most occasions. On certain tracks you could do 90 degree turns at 200 km/h. On others you could swerve left and right without ever getting a drift out of it. The cars felt planted, like they all were 4wd, rather than rwd. That's the biggest complaint for me. They weren't nervous enough to be realistic. Their power was far too controlled, even with no assists. The physics were too forgiving and the brake distance was definitely too short.

Even so, this was one of the first NFS in which you actually needed to brake! For once you weren't at the wheel of a tank! These things actually felt like cars. There was damage (for the first time? I forgot) albeit it was far too low to actually matter. You had to mind your driving to stay on the track, not because you would lose control of the car, but rather because if you got overconfident you might spear straight into the grass and lose time. The whole thing was too forgiving, but it was fun to me. A lot more fun than destroying a city and a legion of police cars in an indestructible tank on wheels. A matter of preference, obviously. One type of fun is mindless and arcade, while the other tries to be more traditional and simmy. It wasn't a sim, but it wasn't mindless either.. and it ended up being fun.. for me, at least =).
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Re: Need for Speed SHIFT: Willow Springs

Post by Hydro_PT »

Starting from the top of your post ( :D ), I know that about the demo. Of course that SHIFT is a huge bet for them, and it's a risky game. They must be sure that the game will sell on the first week or so, even if it's a flop (like Undercover). If the costumers have only EA's words and videos about the game, they will probably buy it (I would buy the game right now just for seeing the trailers lol... even though I know that nowadays everyone is capable of doing great trailers). If a demo is released, a lot of people will be able to try it out and if it's a flop, that will mean poor sales for EA.

I know this is a business, and it's all about how much money you can make with a game, but I don't think that's fair. We should be able to try the game before it's released, otherwise we will be buying a product that isn't what they told us it would be. Isn't that nice, when you buy a game with your money and it's crappy?

I don't mind if the demo comes out at the same time the game comes out (I never buy games on their release date anyway). But I don't want to wait 1 or 2 weeks to try the demo after SHIFT is released. I'll have to download the game and try it out, since EA is not giving us the option to do that legally. Oh and I don't mind sharing that on the Internet... I'm not a pirate lol, I only download games to try them out. Then, if I like them, I end up going to the store and buying the game. If I don't like them, it's a simple matter of unninstalling and deleting the files. Even if they come here at my house, they wouldn't find any illegal game. The ones I have installed are all legal, and I have no illegal games stored on my computer or anywhere else, because I simply delete the files when I don't like the game. :)

As for the handling, well too bad you didn't have a chance to play Porsche Unleashed. It's a great game in the NFS series, and yes, it has a great damage system (great in 2000, at least lol). ToCA is a series of games before GRID (ToCA Race Driver 3 being the latest and the best). You should try that game out, it's definitely one of the best racing games out there: lots of tracks (more than 50 if I remember correctly), cars and types of challenges. You have NASCAR, Rally, DTM, V8, F1, Trucks, GT, Classic, and a lot more types of races. And the car's handling is just superb, if feels realistic and it gives you a great feeling while racing, even if it's more arcade than simulation.

As for GRID, I had no problem using my racing wheel (it's the Logitech MOMO). Did you try any patch? I think there was a problem with the G25 when the game was released, but it was fixed with one of the patches (there are 2). Playing it with the keyboard is indeed a bad experience: I tried it and damn, I couldn't finish one lap. With the wheel, however, it feels much, much better. And it has something that other games don't have: you really feel yourself inside of the car, driving on the track. The AI is superb, the graphics and damage system are beautiful and there's a weird feeling of realism while playing GRID. I don't know if I'm explaining myself well, but when I start a LeMans race, with my wheel and the volume set to a loud level, I feel myself in the cockpit of my Audi R10, sweating to win the race. I've played a lot of racing games throughout the years, and no one gave me such a pleasure. It's like the Call of Duty of racing games. :D

And don't even compare it with Carbon. GRID is arcade, but nothing compared to Carbon... apart from Sega Rally, that NFS is probably the most arcade racing game I've ever played lol.

ProStreet never gave me that realistic feeling that GRID does, and it's like you say, I felt the cars heavy and non-responsive (bricks with wheels). The problem is, almost all cars would give me that feeling, specially when racing on small tracks, where you need to go slowly, brake a lot and almost smashing the wheel to make the car turn. I've also played with every assist turned off and the game wasn't that challenging. You could easily do things that in other games would make you lose control or end up hitting a wall. Drift, for example, was far too easy and non realistic. Talking about GRID again, if you learn how to drift in GRID, you'll see that's the most close to reality you can get. I think that Codemasters did a great job with the drifting physics, even though I've never drifted in my life with a real car.

You also needed to brake on Porsche Unleashed, believe me. That's why I say PU is more realistic than PS. You would lose control if you didn't have careful, you would hit the wall if you didn't brake, etc, etc. The physics were not forgiving, that's for sure. Compared with the other arcade NFS (Underground 1 and 2 and Most Wanted), yes you had to drive more carefully, but it wasn't funnier because of that. PS wasn't a "funny" game, rather it was a disappointing game sometimes, where I would just quit from the race, frustrated with the game. This is my opinion, of course. :P

In the end, I don't think PS was a bad game, but it could have been much better, and there are other games out there who managed to mix simulation and arcade in a better way.
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Re: Need for Speed SHIFT: Willow Springs

Post by Summ »

Starting from the bottom, again ( :P ).

I respect your opinion. Mine differs from yours, but that's because my grounds for comparison are different. You have played games I have not and thus have a different perspective on things than me. Likewise, I have tried games you haven't and.. well, you see where I'm going with this. Personally I liked the physics in PS. You did not. Fair enough :) . Can we agree that the driving model in PS was at least one of the best in the NFS series, albeit it was too easy and too forgiving? I'm not saying one of the best in general.. just within the NFS franchise.

By the sounds of it, PU was quite a game! I could probably compare it to Sierra's Viper Racing, I guess. Ever tried that? Was my first racing game on a pc and it was brilliant! :) Sounds a lot like what you describe. It's sad to think EA has wasted so many years between simulations. I really hope that SHIFT will inject some seriousness into the series.

About GRID - it does sound like the game could be interesting with a wheel. If they really fixed the issues with the G25, I will definitely give it a spin! Thanks for the heads up! I compared it to Carbon because.. well, play Carbon with a keyboard and play GRID with a keyboard and you tell me what's what.. honestly, both sucked donkey balls..

About the whole piracy thing - whether you download or not is your business, obviously. Just be aware that an eventual court would probably not absolve you simply for deleting the files afterwards. In the eyes of a court, all you needed was to have a little patience and wait for the demo. Nobody's pressuring you to play the game asap. ;)
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Re: Need for Speed SHIFT: Willow Springs

Post by Hydro_PT »

You like to start from the bottom, don't you? :P

I also respect your opinion, of course. Yes, I didn't like the physics in ProStreet, but they weren't bad either (I've seen games with worse physics). After all I finished the game (100% completion) twice... that has to mean something.

"Can we agree that the driving model in PS was at least one of the best in the NFS series, albeit it was too easy and too forgiving?"

Definitely! Even though I hadn't played all NFS games, I agree with that.

Porsche Unleashed was quite a game, yes. To me, it's the best NFS out there, for a bunch of personal reasons. I liked other NFS games (almost all of them), but PU stands on another level, it's... different. I still have fun with it, even though the graphics suck for nowadays standards. :P

I never played Sierra's Viper Racing though, so I'm not sure. But if you ever have time, try PU. If you don't care about the graphics, I bet you will like that game. Challenging, detailed cockpit, lots of Porsches, nice tracks, damage system, career management (you must repair your cars, buy new ones and upgrade them), lots of different challenges and a realistic driving. You might have a bit of trouble playing it with Windows Vista or Windows 7, or setting up your wheel, but if you manage to avoid those problems, the game rocks.

"I really hope that SHIFT will inject some seriousness into the series." - I couldn't agree more with you here. I want to have another NFS game in the top of my list... PU is being there for too much time. It's time for a big SHIFT, I hope! :P

As for GRID, I'm not sure if they fixed the problem with the patch - but I know an e-friend who plays GRID with the G25 and he never had any problem. So you might want to give it another chance... I don't think you will regret it if the wheel performs like it should. I wish I could play GRID with the G25 (even though my MOMO is a great wheel). :D

Carbon with the keyboard = #-o / GRID with the keyboard = #-o :shock: #-o

:mrgreen:
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Re: Need for Speed SHIFT: Willow Springs

Post by elie8 »

I love willow springs and ... Demo or no demo, im buying this game, no matter what ... :D =P~ :twisted: :P
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