Cars, law and other confusing topics.

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Kaerar
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Cars, law and other confusing topics.

Post by Kaerar »

Started in my car build thread, but continuing here :)
If you think you are going to get angry over this topic please take a deep breath, no need for flames its going to be a fun discussion :D
boganbusman wrote:
Kaerar wrote:Great fun though as they have no jurisdiction over International Licences ;)
Er, okay, but they still have jurisdiction over your car :|

Sorry for going off-topic anyway... I noticed that you're not really a 'local' so just making sure that you know cops around here are ars3holes.
Yeah have had my unfair share of fun with the local bacon in Aussie and yup they are officially the most aggressive and officious pricks I've had the displeasure to meet. In fact until I came here I had a totally clean license (well almost I had run through a red light once, but it was to avoid an accident so I deem it irrelevant ;) ), but in the short time I have lived here I am actually stunned at the way the government goes about the business of basically raping the populace of cash from traffic offences.

Now I should clear up that there is a stigma against those who take their matters to court and contest them for some reason, as most people here seem to think that if you are charged, you are guilty and should pay up and cop it on the chin. I HATE that train of thought as it is exactly that which erodes the ability of the people to defend themselves when put in a situation created solely by the corporate government to generate cash with no intervention from anyone else.

I'm actually going through the process of court at the moment. Charges are a bunch of lies, but at the same time most would consider me guilty going by general consensus and understanding of the legislation. However the problem is that if the legislation isn't as watertight as people believe it to be, then how can it be applied so liberally.

After having an altercation in court just over a year ago where I was assaulted by two coppers (unprovoked too I might add) in the courtroom itself I started looking into the law and legislation they were claiming was in force (I was already looking into speeding and other offences which are considered criminal with no injured party) and whether there was actually jurisdiction to act in such a way. After a long 3 years of study I have come to the conclusion that the only jurisdiction they have is that which we accede to them. The local government (up to and including the state legislature) is not validated in the constitution, and during a referendum in 1988 it was rejected to add the state legislature and governments to the constitution. This may sound irrelevant but it has huge implications. Firstly it is illegal for them to issue a tax against the people for private travel (method is irrelevant). It is also illegal for the state governments to create monopolies in corporate trading, rendering companies like Queensland Transport illegal as they are a monopoly due to being a for profit corporation.

What this means for the average bloke/gal though is that there is no need to actually register your private property with any governmental agency or corporation such as Queensland Transport. There is no lawful claim to force you to pay licence fees on a regular basis as long as you have a certificate of competency for the operation of a car/motorbike/van etc...
It is even illegal to force people to use compulsory 3rd Party Insurance (though I'm not really against insurance as it's very beneficial at times, but that's another discussion!).

It doesn't matter who in the government claims otherwise, as this all comes from the Imperial act which is still in force in the Commonwealth of Australia and unless you happen to claim these rights, you'll never even know about them. Also another reason why the different states are pushing to have their own constitutions and disable the Imperial Act.

The only reason I looked into all this was due to the actions of two police officers lying about me speeding a couple of years back. I will never pay the fine for that, and seeing as that led to me being assaulted by them (a matter where they even charged me with obstruction of a police officer x2, which I won I might add) I won't be subject to their claimed jurisdiction any further. It's not like I want to use the roads as a race track or anything like that, I just want to be able to travel in peace without the fear of a copper stopping me and making crap up about me cos I have a car that's nice.

Currently I refuse to hold a Qld licence (handed it back in when it ran out back in '08, as it is actually the property of the government). I refuse to register my cars with the state or any state owned corporate agency as the act of registration not only gives them partial title to the property it is also what gives them jurisdiction over it. Finally I have private insurance that is not party to the usual crap from the usual companies.
Last edited by Kaerar on 15 Sep 2010, 08:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cars, law and other confusing topics.

Post by boganbusman »

Interesting story.

I think one of the big reasons why nobody contests the supposed legislation is 'effort'. To go to court means taking days off work, and forking over wads of cash for lawyers and legal fees. And even then there's not a good chance of being successful unless you have a strong case.

You can try and drive your car around unregistered, and even though you might be technically in line with the law, the cops can still (and will) remove your car from the road. A car without number plates really sticks out, and even if you have an unregistered vehicle permit you will still get pulled up (happened to me three times in one week).

Well I hope it all goes well for you, sticking it to the man and everything, but it just sounds like a hassle to me! I will gladly pay my fees just to be left alone.
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Re: Cars, law and other confusing topics.

Post by Kaerar »

Unfortunately that's what they bank on (literally). The cops actually can't remove your car when they have no claim or jurisdiction over it, hence the unregistered part. Never mentioned not having number plates, but seeing as the cops just run number plates through a computer on sight now it's getting stupid. The other thing is I have no need to 'apply' for a 'permit' to travel freely. To apply is granting jurisdiction to the other party. A permit is literally a piece of paper allowing you to act in an illegal manner without punishment according to their rules. If I am not bound to those rules how can I need a permit ;)

The other thing is I work for myself, so I have the time to do this kind of thing. I don't hire lawyers as they are just money pits. They get paid win or lose and actually have loyalty to courts above their clients so the odds are stacked against ya if you do use them.

If the cops attempt to take property without permission they are liable to heavy fines including imprisonment under their rules, especially if they are applying their rules without jurisdiction to do so. Bit of a mouthful but in the end fighting with a copper on the side of a road isn't a good thing, so the best way is don't get pulled over, and if you do, just agree and leave. Then when it gets thrown out of court they just get confused...


Hell it's really funny when you have a recording of a copper unable to provide evidence of jurisdiction :D
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Re: Cars, law and other confusing topics.

Post by viper16 »

and I thought the cops here were bad. guess I wont be driving if I ever go to australia.
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Re: Cars, law and other confusing topics.

Post by steelsnake00 »

Brit cops really take the biscuit.
Like everywhere, the vast majority are reasonable, thoughtful and well informed citizens. I've been pulled over before for being in triple figures in the UK and escaped with a fine and points. I currently have a completely clean license and have had for a number of years.

However, whilst out on the bike I've had SO much trouble. The amount of hassle I get- "oh, your exhaust is far too loud for road use"- well it's 98db and track legal at even the strictest circuits in the UK, so I doubt it's any louder than the exhausts on most sports cars. "Do you have any idea how fast your were traveling on that stretch of road" Yes I do, 73.5mph because I saw you a million miles off you daft prick. If I hadn't I'd be doing about 140.

Once, in the Porsche, I even got pulled over for doing 70mph in a 70mph stretch of dual carriageway.

Plod takes license details
Plod- Do you know what the speed limit on this stretch of road is?
Myself- Yes I do officer, 70mph
Plod- Actually sir it's 60mph
Myself- I hate to correct you but it's 70mph, there's a 60mph zone going into a national speed limit around 400m back.
Plod- I think you'll find it's 60, but I will check
Plod goes to consult with his controller down the radio, and comes back
Plod- Sorry sir, you are right, it is a 70mph zone. Can I ask, is this vehicle yours?
Bear in mind at this point that this is a fast pursuit vehicle fitted with an ANPR camera so he knows bloody well that it's mine, having already seen my license at this point
Myself- Yes it is, you can see that it is as the name on my license matches the name on the insurance pulled from your ANPR camera that I can clearly see on your vehicle
Plod- Would you mind stepping out of the vehicle please?
Myself- Why?
Plod- Because I suspect that this vehicle has been stolen and that your license is fake

Now, I have no objection to people doing their jobs, but making the assumption that a mid-20's well dressed man on a common commuter route to a major business park who just so happens to be driving a rather loud 90's Porsche is somehow involved in both theft AND producing fake driving licenses is pretty stupid.

In the end I took down his badge number and name and said that I'd be making a complaint of harassment about him. I think that he tried to pull me for something he later realised was perfectly legal and felt he had to justify his position by being a bit of a tit about it and accusing me of something that he had no evidence of.
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Re: Cars, law and other confusing topics.

Post by Kaerar »

Yup there's always one isn't there. Thing is those cops look for trouble, then get can get nasty. I remember when I was younger (only just 18) and a bit silly I made the mistake of going into a supermarket car park late at night to get 3 drunk mates to STFU about doing a handbrake turn. After completing the manoeuvre without a hitch I was leaving the place and on an overly worn bit of tarmac (that had gone as smooth as glass due to poor planning) the car understeered, hit the curb, broke the steering which left me outa luck for avoiding the big firetruck lamp post. At this point I felt more than a little sheepish! However no-one was badly hurt and I was heartbroken that I had broken my car. The cops that arrived initially were great. Came over and checked everyone was ok, and there were no serious injuries. Then came over to see if I was ok. I ended up having a nice chat with one of them who was really sympathetic as he could plainly see what had occured, even to the point of me having the accident after doing something silly.

Then a high speed response car arrived (Volvo T5 in those days) and two more cops came over. Told the other two to leave. Then after they left one came over and started baiting me. Trying to get me to admit to stuff and incriminate myself. I had enough wits at the time to shut him down, but he started getting testy. I turned to his mate (who hadn't said a word yet) and said "if you don't tell your companion to shut up and stop attempting to get me to incriminate myself I'll shut his gob with my damn fist." Obviously this didn't go down well with the first prick, but his mate did exactly that, and dragged him away. Was really quite amusing on reflection but on the night it was a different matter.

One thing I always took away from that is never ever listen to a bunch of drunks! It's only you in control, not them ;)
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Re: Cars, law and other confusing topics.

Post by Zotic+ »

i got a 200 dolar ticket ony my bike, i was just getting out of school had my helmet on, but it wasn clipped, before i had a chance to clip it, the police officer at my school stopped me and gave me this expensive ticket :evil:
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Re: Cars, law and other confusing topics.

Post by steelsnake00 »

Zotic+ wrote:i got a 200 dolar ticket ony my bike, i was just getting out of school had my helmet on, but it wasn clipped, before i had a chance to clip it, the police officer at my school stopped me and gave me this expensive ticket :evil:
Wholly deserved in my opinion. I know that in some places it's legal to ride without a secure helmet but at the end of the day an unsecured one is more dangerous that not wearing one at all. I'm absolutely religious about ensuring that all my safety gear is properly attached to my body before riding anywhere- doing otherwise is just asking for a serious head injury.
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Re: Cars, law and other confusing topics.

Post by Zotic+ »

yes i understand that but i was just getting out of the bike racks, the least he could have done was give me a warning. it was the first week of school anyways
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Re: Cars, law and other confusing topics.

Post by xHaZxMaTx »

I just got a speeding ticket, the other day, for going 70 MPH in a 65 zone. :? Not sure how it is in the rest of the world, but in CA and most every other state I've been to, the norm is to go 5-10 MPH over the limit; everyone does it and I certainly wasn't the only person going at least 70 on that bit of freeway.

Granted, I did accelerate on the freeway onramp pretty quickly, but as far as I know there's nothing illegal about that. The cop, however, says I was doing at least 80 on the onramp and that he was having trouble keeping up with me, which I had to keep from laughing at, because there's no way my car could outrun a police cruiser. When he first pulled me over, though, he said that he 'clocked me' going 75, which is also funny, considering the checkbox for radar on the ticket was left unchecked.

I won't argue (here) that I was going over the speed limit, but it seems a lot to me like the cop was just wanting to pick on the guy with the nice, red convertible. Beside the fact that he obviously didn't know how fast I was going, he was being a pretty big doodle before even pulling me over, tail-gating me for at least a mile before turning on his lights.

I don't know how much the ticket is for, yet, but I'm definitely going to argue it in court.
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Re: Cars, law and other confusing topics.

Post by Zotic+ »

I swear the cops in CA just need the money, we're in debt, i guess thats one way they get some money. I heard that a percentage of the the tickets fine goes into there retirement fund.
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