SHIFT At Gamescom: A Preview

[oumysoft]

I'm not too interested in customisation, I was VERY happy that is wasnt a necessity in Most wanted onwards (i guess i like the look of stock cards with no modifications on them). I would like to know how difficult drifting is, i found drifting in race driver grid very fun yet in prostreet extremly fustrating. I'd also like to know if there will be flag rules (i think i saw something similar on the Nordschleife video but would like conformation).

[elie8]

SHIFT is Great and Tops Any Game IMO !!!!

[TRANSFORMER]

Well, I cannot disagree, because I was always a "SH!FT"-Promoter, since the beginning of this year!

[Hydro_PT]

@Summ: Sure, the game can be really good even though it doesn't have a good tuning system. I hope it is, and tuning is not the only thing I'm interested about this game. I want a nice car list, good tracks, realistic handling and feeling, emotion on the track, good AI, challenging races, that kind of stuff. I want this game to deliver the same "magic" that GRID did.

But I just think that tuning is a vital part of NFS games now, and just like TheNoobofFerraris, I would like to tune my car with a visual that I think it's nice, and that I would enjoy driving. So far, NFS games are the only ones that let me do that, and since I always liked to create or recreate racing cars, SHIFT seems perfect for that. It's a shame if we don't get good bodykits or other parts.

As for the vinyls and painting, it seems really good, specially if we have a 1000 layer limit like they said. I can't complain about what I've seen about that. As for tuning parts, it seems that the cars are either stock or a racing version, without being tunable... let's wait for the release, or the demo.

Btw, any info about the Autosculpt? I loved the fact that you could autosculpt the original body of a car, just to give it another look, without being too different from the original. I love to tweak a car only a little bit to make it more "personal".

[Bojan]

No, there is no autosculpt in SHIFT.

[Hydro_PT]

Oh too bad there's no autosculpt.

Btw Bojan, I have a few more questions for you. Hope you don't mind.

Did you play GRID? How can you compare the way the cars handle? Is SHIFT a kind of ProStreet 2 or it's a type of game we have never experienced in the NFS series? Do the cars roll if you have a big crash?

Did you play with rain, or other kind of weather effects? If yes, are there any differences between driving with sun and rain? Is there a night-and-day cycle or at least races that take place at night?

[Bojan]

Never played GRID, never even seen it.
I've seen AI cars roll over after a crash, but I haven't managed to pull it off myself

There aren't really any weather effects in the game, at least not dynamic anyway. There is a setting for dawn, midday and dusk. No night available.

[TheStig]

You should still be able to do that
There might be less bodykits, but as long as they are good that shouldn't be an issue, should it? You will most likely still have tons of colours and unlimited layers of vinyls/decals to play around with.. wait until you see it, mate =) It might be better than you expect

If I read 1000 layers for the whole car, but bojan said that the vinyl system is still slow and not very easy to work with, just like PS an UC.

[TheNoobofFerraris]

@ Bojan

Another thing that has concerned me is damage. I've seen videos of the Nissan GT-R taking a beating (it managed to flip over as well) but the crash didn't result in a total. Can you even total your car in SHIFT after a devastating wreck, or will we see something similar to Gran Turismo?

[Bojan]

You've got 3 settings for damage: off, visual only and full. Even with full the most I've seen it does is affect your performance and the car steering in one way. I don't think you can total your car.

[Summ]

^It's still an nfs Better than previous instalments, most likely, but still an nfs. Putting in full-scale damage would make it impossible for 80-90% of the target audience to enjoy the game. I'm a fan of realism and all, but in games like GTR Evo, you really get to feel how little it takes to render your car useless. Clip a wall even slightly and your steering might take a hit. Knowing how mindlessly the majority of the nfs crowd drives, putting in that kind of damage would have been suicide! Already going the sim way with driving physics was a bold move..

To reiterate however, the game is what you make it. It doesn't have to have full-scale damage to scare you off from hitting other cars. Don't want to hit cars? Then don't hit them. Hitting them isn't optimal anyway, since it slows you down and, as long as there isn't a rubberband in place, might very easily result in a failure to win. As such, if you aimed at driving as you should be driving, the inclusion of damage in the game would be superfluous. Obviously I understand a need for damage online, though.. a bunch of jerks endlessly banging into each other isn't exactly appealing.. but then again, join a racing league and compete online with serious people then, respecting their rules =). That should ensure some crash-free fun.

[TRANSFORMER]

@Summ & Bojan!

I can remember I've once heard in an ingame-interview, that the total damage of the Car won't be appear... instead You will have damage to the Car, but not totally, just as so as if You should just bring up Your Car until the finish line, though it would be annoying to give up too much money 4 the repairs.

In GRID there are no rules (limited) ingame but in SH!FT:

You'll be disqualified for cutting tracks and there's no drive backwards mode what I hope'd help online!

[Bojan]

Yes, the disqualifications are there: cut a corner and the lap time won't count. Cut it three times and you're disqualified.

[TheNoobofFerraris]

Yeah, those disqualification rules make me really happy. And about full-scale damage Summ, I'm the type of player that would like that risk. I consider myself a good driver, and I hate how racing franchises cater to the poor ones. It's not like they can't create an Elite setting where you will take the most realistic damage even from the smallest hits. I am aware of the majority of "kamikaze drivers," but I'd like to see a racing simulator that delivers both the hardcore racing style and a high risk when it comes to damaging your car. Learn to drive people!

[Summ]

^Take a look at GTR2 and GTR Evolution then Both are made by Simbin and are some of the most realistic games out there.. to give you an example, if you tune your car to the track so that it runs really tightly there and you keep squeezing each and every bit of performance out of it throughout the race, you will end up with mechanical failures that will need to be repaired before the next race.. your parts get worn down from redlining the engine. If you are brutal with the clutch, you blow that or your gearbox.. stuff like that. You feel the difference in tire wear after 3-4 laps. Two beautiful games, gameplay-wise. My only bone with them is that they look like something belonging to 2003. The gameplay is fantastic, but the graphics are dull. If you can live with that, though.. you won't be looking back ever again =).

[TheNoobofFerraris]

Sounds interesting, but I probably couldn't deal with either of the games. I'm pretty much looking for the full package, meaning I can't stand poor/dull graphics. Also, I hate to sound elitist in any way but I'd like to make sure the racing game I'm buying is from a "well known" franchise too.

[Summ]

I'm with you on the graphics part. They bother me quite a bit, mostly because the lighting is nearly non-existant. The models are beautiful and the tracks are detailed, but the lighting kills it. The interiors are animated, but sadly they draw from the same generic wheels and gear leavers. I'm not sure about the gauges, but they might be shared, too - it's been a while since I played those games.

The 'well known' bit is rubbish, though. Let's look the situation in the eyes here: Simulations are usually difficult, which makes it a rather narrow segment of the market. You need to be an enthusiast to spend 100 hours on a track alone, chasing the optimal setup and shaving the milliseconds. The big companies did not get big by making games for a small crowd. They became big by appealing to the masses.. cause that's where the money is. The big crowds don't want frustratingly difficult real-life simulations. They want to kick back with mindless fun. Real life is enough of a struggle as is, without adding games to it, which only get fun after you have invested a substantial amount of hours into them. I would never have expected NFS to go simmy and I still doubt it will be as simmy as the lesser-known games/companies, such as GTR, which was made by a group of enthusiasts with no ambition to compete with the likes of NFS. Ambition is the keyword here. Small companies hope to make it big, but they don't expect it, which leaves them in a place, where they can unfold as much as they want. The downside is that, since they aren't big, they don't have the manpower to spare on beautiful, detailed graphics..

I guess the bottomline is: if you want a solid, realistic driving model you go with the lesser known, more accurate games with lesser graphics produced by smaller companies. If graphics matter more than realistic physics, you end up with things like NFS, which has mostly been about graphics and mindless fun (for those that find it fun). I guess the sad truth is that we still need to see a game, where you can have it all.. and most likely we never will. You just have to decide which matters most to you =). I think a fair compromise between graphics and physics is GT5. I can't vouch for Forza, but I suppose it should be in the same lane. Hopefully Shift will be made of some of the same stuff. Time will tell.

[TheNoobofFerraris]

Graphics aside, how would you compare the car physics from GTR Evolution to the latest Gran Turismo games? (The available GT5: Prologue & GT4 since GT5 isn't out) Also, I've always thought that Gran Turismo was ahead of any other racing franchise from the start, well known or not. The games have always had great graphics and physics, and I don't think the developers ever had to sacrifice anything to make something happen in one of their products.

Well, up until this point. GT4 was a satisfying play but GT5 doesn't look to be that promising if you count the graphics out. I just think that the latest release is capable of bringing much more to gamers and long-time fans. (sorry if I'm rambling or straying off-topic.. it's very late atm and I'm tired)

[TheStig]

For me it's the complete package.

I want a good racing feel and decent graphics. but for me good sound is a must have.
If the car doesn't sound nice/cool or realistic and the gfx and so are still good, it doesn't give the right vibe.
Sadly the small companies don't have the resources to give us realistic sounds and we end up with cars that eighter sound like lawnmowers or they all sound basicly the same even it 1 is a V8 or I4.... basicly all flat and dull.

If a car sound like a lawnmower I soon loose interest in the game, no matter how good it looks or how correct the physics are.

[Summ]

Hmm.. Good questions. Let me start by saying quickly that GT5 looks awesome and plays awesome in terms of car physics. What they sacrificed to get there (at least in Prologue.. can't speak about GT5 final nor GT4, as I never played the latter) is damage and AI. There is no damage whatsoever and when an AI car clips you, you bounce off the same way as if you had a magnet in your car and the AI had one in his and it pushes you away. There goes the suspension of disbelief. Some of the collisions are as unrealistic as the car handling feels realistic. The AI doesn't give a damn about you. If the AI is in a low-powered car, which can brake later than you in your fancy Ferrari, they will ram you and keep going like you weren't even there. There is absolutely no response. The AI drives like it's on tracks and each car is alone. They will overtake and all, but that's about it. It's just about the worst and dumbest implementation of artificial intelligence I have EVER seen. If they fix it in the final version however.. they will have one heck of a game on their hands!

The cars themselves feel infact really good. Obviously I haven't driven them all in real life - not even a fraction - but I imagine they would feel a lot like their counterparts in GT5. What matters most is that the cars have personality. A heavy car feels heavy. A 4wd car grips a lot better than a rwd. You really feel the difference, when you change cars.. and that really is quite an accomplishment. Some cars are unavoidably dull, while some are extremely lively - see the Ferrari F430 and Ford GT. Is the driving model realistic? I'd say so, yes.. quite realistic. As I mentioned in other posts, GT5 pays attention to a number of details that are lacking in other games. Cornering with an F-430 for instance, you NEED to feed it some power throughout the turn. If you remain idle on the throttle while cornering, the engine-braking is so powerful that the rear kicks out, so it has a tendency to constantly oversteer unless you are spot on and control it with the throttle. The same applies to the Ford GT and most of the high-powered rwd cars.

That detail lacks in GTR Evo however. Engine-braking isn't really a factor I have noticed in there. GTR Evo feels less alive and more technical, so to say. It's a lot harder and less forgiving as its tyre physics are better than GT5. All cars are race cars and are tightly strung. The difference between them isn't as large as in GT5. There is difference between the various classes/groups of cars, but the cars within the same group feel very similar. Less obvious details separate them performance-wise than in GT5. Generally speaking about the big cars thought (I drive a Gumpert @600 bhp in that game) throttle control is a lot harder to achieve. If the rear steps out by, say 5-10 degrees, you can catch it with the right setup. Anything above that, even in an M3, and you're toast. There's just no way of catching a serious slide. Is that more realistic? I don't honestly know. I do know that it much more about precision racing than Gran Turismo. You are chasing the small numbers in Evo, fine-tuning your rides and paying attention to statistics. You aim to go sideways as little as humanly possible - because it costs you precious milliseconds and the unforgiving AI might easily overtake you. The AI of GTR Evo isn't flawless, but it is MILES ahead of that in GT5. If you drive a little slowly they will start flashing their lights at you to get you to pull over so they can overtake in practice sessions. They won't just mindlessly slam into you.

Overall, both games feel fantastic and quite real but each in its own way. GTR Evo is about racing cars and precision and you can feel that in the car handling. GT5 is about huge car lists, most of which are stock cars.. and they handle more like you would expect from a stock car. GTR Evo feels like serious, professional racing, while GT5 has a sense of weekend events to it - come as you are, bring what you've got. They both feel great in their own distinctive ways. I can't tell you which is most realistic. Both are hard and both feel good.. just in their own way =).

[TheNoobofFerraris]

You certainly know how to provide a detailed post.

[Summ]

^When the topic invites it, yeah, definitely I hope the answer left you satisfied.

[TheNoobofFerraris]

Definitely, it's what I would call a good read.

[Summ]

Happy to oblige