Track Days

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steelsnake00
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Track Days

Post by steelsnake00 »

Anyone here a track day regular?
I've driven the Santa Pod drag a few times, as well as Castle Combe and Brands Hatch.
In August (9 til the 11th) I'm heading down to Germany, to the Nürburgring Nordschleife circuit.
This gives a prime oppertunity for me to do a little autobahn sprinting as well as timing myself around the legendary 'Ring.
I'm looking forward to seeing how many Porsche 911 Turbo/GT series I can dispatch in the Audi. God I love street sleepers :lol:
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Post by DarrenR21373 »

Not a regular, but I have driven around Goodwood a couple of times on events organised by Vauxhall (when they launched the VX220 and the Astra Coupe).

Sad thing was that I was much quicker around the track in the Astra 2.2 coupe than I was in the VX220. Guess I just wasn't used to such a great handling car. However, when the instructor drove me round a lap in the VX220, it was awesome - I thought I was a reasonably quick track driver (I passed a Ferrari F355 which was on the track at the same time!), but this guy could have given Michael Schumacher a run for his money. :-#
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Post by Grez~Supra_RZ-S »

Im a regular, race at York dragway every other weekend as well as Elvington and Santa Pod whenever the opportunity arises. Have two major track days booked this year, the Nurburgring from September the 16th for a week, then at Elvington the weekend I get back. Also got one at RAF Marham coming up quite soon. :)
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Post by steelsnake00 »

I'm very much looking forward to having a play on the legendary Ring. Theres me taking the Audi, and three of my mates (each taking cars- a race-stripped E36 M3 Evo, a modded 206 GTi 180 and a Clio V6 Williams) to play with, which should make it a little more fun.
I'm suprised I haven't spotted you at the 'Pod Grez, I've ran it onf a few weekends.
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Post by Hecubus »

I'm no where near a regular, although I did once take my old Intrepid to the Toronto Motorsports Park (which is really in Cayuga, about an hour or so away from Toronto). I only managed to get one run in, since it was a two hour drive. Still, I ran a 16.7 in the 1/4 mile, which is admittedly, less than mindblowing.
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Post by Grez~Supra_RZ-S »

steelsnake00 wrote:I'm very much looking forward to having a play on the legendary Ring. Theres me taking the Audi, and three of my mates (each taking cars- a race-stripped E36 M3 Evo, a modded 206 GTi 180 and a Clio V6 Williams) to play with, which should make it a little more fun.
I'm suprised I haven't spotted you at the 'Pod Grez, I've ran it onf a few weekends.
To be honest, Santa Pod is a bit far-away for too many regular visists. Im usually to be found at York raceway with a few mates. Santa pod and Shakespeare visits are rare in comparison, purely down to distance. They are both good tracks though, albeit Shakespeare is the better one.

Managed to dig out one pic from York, you can see my brothers old Supra in the background, owned by Dave, my best mates dad.

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Glad to hear you've got some competition round the 'Ring, we've got a fairly decent gathering going too! Off the top of my head, the mates going drive: Supra (above), CRX Del Sol, Jaguar XKR (pretty heftily tuned), Honda S2000 and then a Kawasaki Ninja. My aim is to at least beat the Sol. :P
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Post by master m »

@steelsnake00: when you go to the nurburgring, make sure you post pics here. :P
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Post by donaldgladden »

we had 1 track meet for SCCA solo before Washington's race trackgot closed down due to too much noise and a demand for soccer again. now i have to travel to either Beaverun penn or virginia international raceway. each more than 100 miles away from home.
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Post by steelsnake00 »

Oh I will :D
I'll just try not to replicate my friend's Ring experiance by taking my car off road, at 90, backwards. That's a lesson to learn- never lift off in a corner in a rwd, mid-engine coupé. And if you DO lift off, remember to put your foot down again!
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Post by spartan.dk »

Hecubus wrote:I'm no where near a regular, although I did once take my old Intrepid to the Toronto Motorsports Park (which is really in Cayuga, about an hour or so away from Toronto). I only managed to get one run in, since it was a two hour drive. Still, I ran a 16.7 in the 1/4 mile, which is admittedly, less than mindblowing.
Hey, isn't there a track in Missisauga or something? And in Cayuga, are there little circuits you can go around on? :D
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Post by Hecubus »

I haven't heard of a track closer to Missisauga. And I think you're right that Cayuga has more than just the drag strip, but I only know of the strip being frequently open to the common public (re. any guy with twenty bucks and a car).
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Post by spartan.dk »

Don't you need requirements in your car to be qualified? Tires, rollcage... etc.
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Post by Hecubus »

For Cayuga's test and tune events, all you need is a car that passes the safety inspection (basically, if it's street legal, you're fine). As I said, I took a stock Intrepid and got in with no problem.
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Post by steelsnake00 »

spartan.dk wrote:Don't you need requirements in your car to be qualified? Tires, rollcage... etc.
I'm trying to get a bolt-in cage for the Audi for the Ring, despite the fact that the strut braces, ARB's and coilover suspention from KW (Bilsen PSG9's) have tightened the car up no end. The 206 my friend is running is caged, dropped over 17x8.5 OZ Superturismo alloys, chip, manifold, exhaust system CF CAI, cams and a few other (minor) engine tweaks. The E36 M3 should give me a run for my money; now running uprated injectors and McHenrick forged pistons, it put 320 at the wheels out on the CA Automotive dyno and weight a good 300KG less then the Quattro!
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Post by Grez~Supra_RZ-S »

What other mods does the BMW have?
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Post by steelsnake00 »

M3 Evo, totally stripped interior, 8-point cage, Bilsen coilovers on Ground Control camber plates, lightweight SSR Competition alloys in 8.5x17 front and 10.5x17 rear with rear arches rolled 10mm, AP Racing 4-pots on drilled 320mm disks, Motorsport crankshaft, bolts and conrods. Uprated oil pump, E46 M3 CSL pulleys, Schrick cams, Ca Automotive ECU, Eiserman exhaust, decatted. Carbon fibre ram air intake, forged pistons and uprated piston rings. Front and rear AC Schnitzer strut braces, ACS antiroll bars, Fluidyne radiator, CA Auto clutch, standard non-SMG 6-speed box. Externally: SSDD Motorsport front splitter, ACS rear splitter, M3 GT replica rear spoiler.

Its an ex PBMW feature car, it's E46 Topaz Blue and was featured by the previous owner whilst it still had its interior intact. Now it's my friends trackday car (he drives an E39 525i as his daily driver)
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Post by Grez~Supra_RZ-S »

I wouldnt worry too much then if I were you, if hes only putting out 320rwhp with all those mods (they make that at the fly standard), its obviously not running right. Audi power. :D
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Post by steelsnake00 »

Grez~Supra_RZ-S wrote:I wouldnt worry too much then if I were you, if hes only putting out 320rwhp with all those mods (they make that at the fly standard), its obviously not running right. Audi power. :D
Well Evo's never make 321 at the crank, let alone at the wheels. They loose up to 100hp in the drivetrain (as EVO's car shows) and the VANOS is notoriously unrelable.
However, I won't worry too much. Vorsprung Durch Technik ect ect.
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Post by Grez~Supra_RZ-S »

Actually, the E36 M3 Evo does make 320bhp at the crank out of the box. Aside from the obvious advantage in power that the Evo got, it also gained a 6 speed 'box.
The BMW M3 (E36) started life as a 2-door Coupe. It was equipped with a 3.0-liter, 286 bhp engine and a 5-speed manual transmission. The car performed very well! But BMW didn't leave the car alone, and in summer of 1996 the improved M3 saw the light! Now sporting a 3.2-liter engine containing 321 bhp with a 6-speed manual transmission, the car became even more serious competitor in the field full of high-end sports cars. Yet for an average person the car would still be hard to distinguish from a base 4-cylinder BMW 3-series Coupe. The engine upgrade was followed by addition of Sedan and Convertible body styles, and the upgraded floating-caliper race developed brakes of the late BMW M5 turned it into M3 Evolution! But unlike the first generation M3 Evo, the present one goes undistinguished from it's lesser M3 siblings!
Source1

Source2

I also dont believe that the drivetrain loss is 100bhp. On a normal E36 M3, that equates to a power loss of approximately 35%. Given that the average lancer Evolution loses ~25% through an AWD drivetrain, theres no way an E36 loses that much. Furthermore, the Lancer Evo is notoriously the worst car I know of for transmission losses.

I think your friend has you misinformed, mate. :wink:
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Post by steelsnake00 »

My mistake, then.
However, I know that the E36 M3 Evo is QUOTED as making 321bhp; but in practice very few actually have. Apparently, most make around the 300 mark (also working to explain the measly 0.1 sec 0-60 difference between the 286bhp M3 and the 321bhp M3 Evo. For example, at the PBMW thrash, the E36 M3 Evo made its quoted 321 at the crank running a Dantek ECU, Eisenmann exhaust and GruppeM intake, and that engine had been scratch-rebuilt to make sure that all its internals were in perfect condition.
Looking back through my old EVO issues, however, they're car dyno'd at just 233 at the wheels without modifications, and that was an Evo (a lightweight GT, in fact) with no signs of any engine problems (though it did increase significantly with the ECU upgrade, perhaps a VANOS software problem)
If a Lancer Evo looses roughly 25% of its power from crank to wheels, then the Audi is doing remarkably well. On Awesome's dyno, it hit the 384 at the wheels and was quoted at 430 at the crank, equating to only an 11% drivetrain loss!
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Post by Grez~Supra_RZ-S »

Well, I found a dyno-graph from a US spec M3 rated at 256bhp, with a transmission loss of 21% (197rwhp).

Perhaps the problem with the car lays in the drivetrain itself. A car with those modifications, even on a low displacement car, should yield gains considerably higher than that. Although with reference to Evos car, 233rwhp is equal to roughly 282bhp using a 21% drivetrain loss like the above M3, suggesting that its not actually an M3 Evo. Im not actually clued up on the GTs, so it could be that they come with the same power output as the conventional M3.

With regards to your friends car, I still stand by my comment that its a poor power output in terms of the modifications it has. Either something isnt running right, or your friend isnt telling you the whole truth.

I am impressed by an only 10.7% drivetrain loss, especially considering the weight and AWD system of the S2. Even my car has roughly a 17% loss at its current spec, although mine isnt running properly at the moment.
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Post by steelsnake00 »

I miss it, alot. I've been without it for all of about a week, and desperately hoping the GT3071RS is in before Nurburgring, because as much fun as taking the Corrado round the ring would be, it just wouldn't be a match for the S2 (or any of my friends cars, for that matter). I'm having to be careful about boost levels as well, as its running S1 Quattro pistons from the road homologation, and I'm more than a little worried about blowing a piston in what is essentially a quite fragile engine.
And you're right, the M3 GT runs at 286bhp, the same as a standard M3, 3.2 Single VANOS engine. The article I was using as a source used a comparison with the Evo, which made it appear as if the engine spec was the same
I think one reason for the quality of drivetrain transfer is the fact that both the propshaft and differential (though the propshaft was cut down) are actually from the Porsche-designed RS2 (as is much of the engine, thanks to an in-house GMBH Quattro conversion on behalf of the first owner); these drivetrain parts are lighter, stronger, and the diff is slightly different. I have been recommended to upgrade to an S1 differential for sake of torque output, but not until the new turbo and pistons are in place and they've at least started to bed in; I'll run the car at a lower-than-standard boost until they bed fully, so the diff won't be subject to too great an increase in power.
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Post by Grez~Supra_RZ-S »

Rather than buy a stock diff from another car, why not just buy an uprated diff? Im running what is essentially a Kaaz two-way on mine, and its nice knowing that the rest of my car will break long before that does. :wink:
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Post by steelsnake00 »

Well the S1 diff is rated up to an idiotic ammount of horsepower; the homologation one is identical to the one used in the S1 race car which was rated at over 600bhp and almost 1000 lb ft. I'll look into it, I'm going on MTM's reccomendations ;)
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Post by Grez~Supra_RZ-S »

Any pics of this beast yet? Ive been away for a long time, havent seen it yet! Wouldnt mind seeing a dyno sheet too out of interest, just to see where it makes peak power/torque. :D
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