Upgrading my computer

[Morty]

My computer, and all parts (except a few fans, the TV-card, the DVD Writer and 2 of the hard drives) was bought in November 2002... It has served me well, could even play NFS MW on it, but I feel it's time to upgrade soon (around Xmas, hopefully some of the parts will be cheaper then).

My picks would be these (Norwegian prices as of yesterday):
MB: MSI K9N SLI Platinum: nForce 570 SLI, ATX, Socket AM2, 2 PCIe x16, 2 PCIe x1, 3 PCI, Realtek 7.1 surround (198 EUR)
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+: 2.2 GHz, Socket AM2, 1 MB cache (153 EUR)
CPU fan: Zalman CNPS9500 AM2: Ultra Quiet, Socket AM2 (47 EUR)
RAM: TwinMOS DDR2 PC5300 1024 MB: 64M8*16chip, 667MHz (120 EUR)
PSU: Thermaltake Silent Purepower: 20/24pin (80 EUR)
GFX: MSI GeForce 7900GTO 512 MB: GDDR3, PCIe, 650MHz/1320MHz (287 EUR)
HD: Western Digital Caviar SE 16 400 GB: SATA2, 16 MB 7200RPM (155 EUR)
Fan: PAPST 80x80x25: 19 db (17 EUR)

Total 1060 EUR.

Also planning on these parts later:
Sound: 7.1 surround system, probably Logitech
Monitor: NEC 20" LCD MultiSync 20WGX2 Gaming


Got some questions tho, and this is kinda why I'm posting this stuff... I'm a computer n00b, and these questions might be very stupid, so be nice

MB: From the detailed info:
ATA-133 - contact(s): 1 x 40-pin IDC - 2 Unit(s) - RAID
Serial ATA-300 - contact(s): 6 x 7-pin serial ATA - 6 Unit(s) - RAID
Cables included: 1 x IDE cable
*I got 1 DVD ROM, 1 DVD Writer, and 2 IDE HDDs, and something tells me that's gonna be tricky to use... Any advice?

CPU: I've been recommended the AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ (2MB cache), but it's too expensive.
*Is there a chance it will drop in price sometime soon?

RAM: 2 GB is a little too expensive for me atm, but I'm hoping prices will drop a little around/after Xmas...
*Is 1 GB enough today?

GFX: Considering the Gainward GeForce 7950GX2 instead, it's way too expensive atm, but I've heard prices will drop when the 8xxx series come. Hope that's true, coz the card seems great.
*Anyway, it's probably nothing, but I read the card I've chose is "built for Vista". Does that mean it won't work with my XP SP1?


*Fans: Are MIST fans any good? They're a lot cheaper than PAPST...

Hopefully, this will last at least 3 years, before I need a new upgrade. I was gonna wait one more year, but after the built'in sound card died last weekend, I've been forced to speed things up a little. Tempted to buy a cheap sound card while I wait for prices to drop tho...

*Final question: Is this stuff good enough?

[PSZeTa]

The mobo will indeed have a problem running all IDE devices, since it only has one slot. I'm afraid you'll have to choose another one.

Small chance of processor prices dropping. A few months ago, they were more than twice as expensive. Prices have dropped due to Intel's new processor line. X2 3800+ will do fine.

RAM prices are hard to tell these days. Everyone is shifting towards DDR2. Currently, prices keep going up. 1GB will be sufficient depending on what you do. If you plan on playing the latest games, 2GB might come in handy.

Do not get the 7950GX2. It's a buggy card and has problems with some games. The 7900GTO is a 7900GTX (nVidia's current singlecore flagship model) with lower voltages on the memory. If you're lucky, you can get it to GTX speeds with lower voltages. If not, you can simply PENCIL a resistor to increase voltage and get it to GTX easily. ''Built for Vista'' is probably some kind of method to get it selling. It will work under XP fine.

It's hard to tell if MIST fans are good. But you might give them a try, there isn't much difference between fans anyway except for power. More power = More RPM = More noise.

Overall, it's a good AMD system. You might have a look again on PSUs though. Do not take Thermaltake PSU shiznit unless you plan on getting their 700/750w versions.

[Morty]

The mobo will indeed have a problem running all IDE devices, since it only has one slot. I'm afraid you'll have to choose another one.

Yeah, I realized thateventually... Problem has been sorted out tho. Gonna buy a converter, to make one of the IDE drives SATA, and then scrap the other one. It's 4 years old, time to retire...

Small chance of processor prices dropping. A few months ago, they were more than twice as expensive. Prices have dropped due to Intel's new processor line. X2 3800+ will do fine.

Well, if they just dropped, I guess it's pretty good timing to upgrade now.

RAM prices are hard to tell these days. Everyone is shifting towards DDR2. Currently, prices keep going up. 1GB will be sufficient depending on what you do. If you plan on playing the latest games, 2GB might come in handy.

I should probably buy the RAM pretty soon then... Part of the upgrade reason is that I want to play NFSC and eventually GTA4. Probably some other games as well... Hopefully, I'll be able to afford more RAM before GTA4 comes out, and hope 1 GB is enough for playing NFSC decently.

Do not get the 7950GX2. It's a buggy card and has problems with some games. The 7900GTO is a 7900GTX (nVidia's current singlecore flagship model) with lower voltages on the memory. If you're lucky, you can get it to GTX speeds with lower voltages. If not, you can simply PENCIL a resistor to increase voltage and get it to GTX easily. ''Built for Vista'' is probably some kind of method to get it selling. It will work under XP fine.

Well, it was too expensive anyway, which is why I had the 7900GTO as my first choice. Not gonna do any overclocking tho, just afraid to mess things up...

It's hard to tell if MIST fans are good. But you might give them a try, there isn't much difference between fans anyway except for power. More power = More RPM = More noise.

Both are 19 dB, so I guess they're pretty equal... More concerned about quality, but since it'll just be an extra tower fan, it won't really matter... And the MIST has LED, so it looks cooler... Changing my setup to MIST then

Overall, it's a good AMD system. You might have a look again on PSUs though. Do not take Thermaltake PSU shiznit unless you plan on getting their 700/750w versions.

Well, I was gonna buy the 460W, but I can change that... What about Apevia or Hiper? Any good?

However, The Gravedigger gave his comments on the IRC chat, and he kinda talked me into going for Intel's Core 2 Duo E6300 1.86GHz instead. 1.86 is less than I have now tho, but I doubt that's really important. The E6400 is too expensive for now, so I'm just gonna hope the E6300 will be enough for a while...

So here's the updated list, now also with links.

MB: Asus P5B-E, P965, Socket-775, ATX, GbLAN, SATAII, Firewire, PCI-Ex16 (168 EUR)
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 1.86GHz Socket LGA775, 2MB, BOXED w/fan (198 EUR)
CPU cooling: Zalman CNPS9500AT Ultra Quiet CPU Cooler, Socket 775 (48 EUR)
RAM: Corsair Value S. PC5300 DDR2 1024MB Kit w/two matched Value Select 512MB (132 EUR)
GFX: MSI GeForce 7900GTO 512MB GDDR3, PCI-Express, 2xDVI-I, 650MHz/1320MHz (288 EUR)
PSU: Thermaltake Silent Purepower 460W, Blue Light, 2xSATA, ATX, PCI-E, 20/24pin (80 EUR)
HD: Western Digital Caviar SE16 400GB SATA2 16MB 7200RPM (155 EUR)
Fan: MIST fan, 80x80x25mm, 19 dB(A), LED, 4xBlue (11 EUR)
HD stuff: Converter from IDE to S-ATA (20 EUR)
Total: 1100 EUR

Any views?

[PSZeTa]

Clockspeed doesn't say much. If you're going with Core2Duos, you won't be dissapointed. They have proven themselves to be the best processors on the market ATM.

Hmm, reading a review on the Thermaltake PSU changed my mind a bit.. Though I'm not completely convinced yet. A PSU isn't exactly something you should save money on, especially because it's a vital component in PCs.

[Morty]

Clockspeed doesn't say much. If you're going with Core2Duos, you won't be dissapointed. They have proven themselves to be the best processors on the market ATM.

Hmm, reading a review on the Thermaltake PSU changed my mind a bit.. Though I'm not completely convinced yet. A PSU isn't exactly something you should save money on, especially because it's a vital component in PCs.

Well, I've been on the AMD side of the discussion for years, so it took a while before I changed my mind about Intel Core 2 Duo as well... But everyone keeps saying it's better than AMD now, so I guess you all have a point.

About PSU, no, I definitely don't want to buy something too cheap, or something that'll break soon. My current 360W PSU came with the Chieftec tower, and has done pretty good, but my computer has turned itself off a couple of times lately (especially when gaming or programs freeze), and I think that's a sign of the PSU going bye-bye. Was gonna buy a new PSU anyway, even before the major upgrade idea came...

[PSZeTa]

Well.. I'm not really sure what your budget is. PSU choices on Komplett isn't exactly WOW either. A good 500W PSU should do the trick.

http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/s ... p?t=136602

[Morty]

40 pages

Well, I'm already above my budget (still only a student), but I'm hoping some prices will drop in a couple of months...
The only 500W I can really afford is the Aspire/Apevia, but since it's so cheap, I'm not sure it's very good...

[PSZeTa]

http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29248

Avoid Aspire.

Maybe look into second-hand?

[The Gravedigger]

Why not look into the Hiper brand for your PSU?

Don't think I've seen many (if any) bad reviews for them, it also seems that this would be a very nice choice.

Besides that, it's turning into a rather nice little system mate

[PSZeTa]

Type-M Hipers might be okay.. I'd take it.

[Morty]

Avoiding Aspire then.

Why not look into the Hiper brand for your PSU?

Don't think I've seen many (if any) bad reviews for them, it also seems that this would be a very nice choice.

Besides that, it's turning into a rather nice little system mate

It's even cheaper than the Thermaltake... But yeah, judging by the reviews, it looks good... Seems like there are enough cables as well

[Morty]

Well, the upgrade is done, and everything seems to run smoothly, altho I didn't like the reboot last night... Came out of nowhere, but maybe it was just a one time only thing... Had some last minute changes, so this is what I ended up buying:

Motherboard: Asus P5B
CPU cooler: Thermaltake BigTyphoon 120 VX
GFX: Asus GeForce 7950GT 512MB
Sound: Creative Inspire T-7900 (Sub,7 speakers,amplifier), Retail
Fan: MIST 80x80x25mm, 4xBlue LEDs
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 2.13GHz
RAM: Corsair Value Select PC5300 1024MB Kit
PSU: Hiper Power supply ATX 530W

Went for the Intel E6400 instead, because it happened to be on sale the week I bought stuff, and went for a different CPU cooler, because some people on a hardware forum told me the Thermaltake was more value for the money. The thing is huge tho
Also went for a different GFX, because the 7900GTO wasn't in sale in Norway anymore. Don't think 7950GT was a bad second choice tho

[Jmac-]

7950 GT is a good card, no doubt. However, I don't know what prices are like there, but here in North America, the 7950 GT is around the same price as the X1950 XT, a card which absolutely dominates the 7950 GT. Too late now, though, I guess.

I don't know about the Value Select memory choice, as well. My personal feeling is that spending another $20-$50 on better memory would extend the life of your computer as the Core 2 Duos overclock like crazy.

My friend and I just set up his system last week (E6300, Zalman CNPS9500, 2 GB Corsair XMS2 PC6400, eVGA 680i motherboard, GeForce 8800 GTS) and we got his system overclocked to 3.25 GHz stable (from 1.83) and, alongside the overclocked 8800 GTS, he's running 11000 in 3DMark06.

Overall, it looks like a good system, though.

[Carcrazy]

[quote="PSZeTa"]The mobo will indeed have a problem running all IDE devices, since it only has one slot. I'm afraid you'll have to choose another one.quote]

Or you could buy an IDE to SATA adapter.

[Morty]

7950 GT is a good card, no doubt. However, I don't know what prices are like there, but here in North America, the 7950 GT is around the same price as the X1950 XT, a card which absolutely dominates the 7950 GT. Too late now, though, I guess.

I don't know about the Value Select memory choice, as well. My personal feeling is that spending another $20-$50 on better memory would extend the life of your computer as the Core 2 Duos overclock like crazy.

My friend and I just set up his system last week (E6300, Zalman CNPS9500, 2 GB Corsair XMS2 PC6400, eVGA 680i motherboard, GeForce 8800 GTS) and we got his system overclocked to 3.25 GHz stable (from 1.83) and, alongside the overclocked 8800 GTS, he's running 11000 in 3DMark06.

Overall, it looks like a good system, though.

About the GFX... I never considered ATi Radeon, I'm all for GeForce... So that was never an option, no matter how much stronger it is...

I wasn't sure about RAM either, I think I was going for something different at first, but people recommended Corsair, and Value Select seemed like a good choice. The only problem is that I need more, 1 GB isn't enough, but hopefully it'll last a while... This upgrade was already too expensive tho, so anything more expensive was really not an option... I have no plans to overclock tho (too scared that I might destroy something), so I don't think it'll be a problem...

The mobo will indeed have a problem running all IDE devices, since it only has one slot. I'm afraid you'll have to choose another one.

Or you could buy an IDE to SATA adapter.

Bought 2 of those

[Abrams]

um...Zalman 9500/9700 series are better then Big Typhoon. Especially if you got strong horizontal air flow then Zalmans fan position will draw heat away from heatsink even stronger.

Not to mention a huge heat dispassion are on 9700 models, it might be a pain to fit but it one of the best air cooling kits even if you overclock decently.

oh and as for overclocking, i myself not considering doin it yet with a E6600, even tho i run on very low temps of like 28C the CPU(stock CPU fan but nicely modelled case airflow) in idle i still dont wanna even try it till i get a bit more knowledge in hardware/cooling areas.

p.s. as for gfx, if go for high end DX9 ones then it would be better to get 7950GX2 with a gig of memory?

[Jmac-]

7950 GX2 is more $$$ than the 8800 GTS and the 8800 GTS is faster ... Doesn't make sense to get the 7950 GX2 at this point ...

[Morty]

um...Zalman 9500/9700 series are better then Big Typhoon. Especially if you got strong horizontal air flow then Zalmans fan position will draw heat away from heatsink even stronger.

Not to mention a huge heat dispassion are on 9700 models, it might be a pain to fit but it one of the best air cooling kits even if you overclock decently.

oh and as for overclocking, i myself not considering doin it yet with a E6600, even tho i run on very low temps of like 28C the CPU(stock CPU fan but nicely modelled case airflow) in idle i still dont wanna even try it till i get a bit more knowledge in hardware/cooling areas.

p.s. as for gfx, if go for high end DX9 ones then it would be better to get 7950GX2 with a gig of memory?

Well, like I said, I was going for Zalman, but people told me Thermaltake was better. Too late now tho, and it seems to do the job Looks pretty cool too

[Abrams]

Well, depends who told you that, i myself also thought Thermaltake better due to 6 heatpipe design, but problem with that is that fan still makes some blind spots on the heatsink while the lay-on-the-side position almost eliminates those. But again, both are great systems, difference only in OCing and maybe general airflow that is also important in ocing where every degree counts.

[Morty]

Well, depends who told you that, i myself also thought Thermaltake better due to 6 heatpipe design, but problem with that is that fan still makes some blind spots on the heatsink while the lay-on-the-side position almost eliminates those. But again, both are great systems, difference only in OCing and maybe general airflow that is also important in ocing where every degree counts.

Yeah, I might have to change something if I decide to OC, but that's a few years ahead in time...

Here are some pics of how it looks

[BrontoX]

You should change your Monitor to an LCD

[Morty]

I will, I even know which one I want, the NEC 20" LCD MultiSync 20WGX2 Gaming. Problem is, it costs 600 Euro, and I don't have much money left, since I'm also saving to buy a car later this year... But the stuff I've bought should last a while, so maybe I'll buy a new monitor early next year

[YaelDjiel]

You should change your Monitor to an LCD

and why exactly?
his current one seems more than fine
/me drools at the 1600x1200 res

[S2000_Skyline12]

I think i can get mine up to "1080i" settings lol but I wanna get some lights for my comp how would you install em? through the PSU?

[Morty]

You should change your Monitor to an LCD

and why exactly?
his current one seems more than fine
/me drools at the 1600x1200 res

A LCD takes less space... Not that it's a problem right now, but I don't know how much desktop space I'll have when I move again... And CRT weighs a lot
1600x1200 FTW, altho I had to go down to 75 Hz, as max on 85 Hz is 1600x1024, and that looked weird...